Love the vibe. Here on Substack, I’ve been trying fruitlessly to catch the eye of Classical Wisdom types, since much of my dangerous and groundbreaking knowledge would not have been possible without the input of several Greek myths. My co-author-far more experienced in these matters-tells me the same is true for Bible-thumpers as well: although our book would be NOTHING without the Good Book, as soon as they hear what we propose, they bury their heads in the sand.
So, yeah, I completely agree: History is told by the supposed winners. All other narratives are moot.
Thanks, I find myself bored stiff with those who are just writing about the history as if the collaborative history is nothing more than 'if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes a truth.' I search for the nuggets that show a different narrative, that of the losers and who was erased.
My big topic like this lately is the Berbers and the Arabs that came to be called the Moors. The conflation and thereafter erasure by the victors. I have an article to put out soon. Its difficult research, so inductive, you have to peel layers back and then something is found that puts you at a totally different level of understanding.
Love your comment, Jerome*. They remind me very much of the ancient Greek scholar Euhemerus**, who sought to "peel back the layers of a story" to "reveal the hidden truths" contained therein. All I do now is geared towards explaining why, as you say, people like the Berbers and Moors, were not only Conflated and erased, but why that HAD to be. The answers are hideous, and I use this word consciously: many ancient myths, native and civilized, speak of the "hideous underworld nature" of certain underground beings and gods, and those are all us!
*And the repetition of a lie quote, of course.
**–founder of what would become, thanks to Dorothy Vitaliano in 1968, Geomythology.
Oh, thank you for that mention of Vitaliano and Geomythology-- new to me. One thing I am working on is a travel book along the Ganges in India. And reading Ganga and the story of Badrinath and Shiva, and pondering it, I kept thinking to myself, this is a story of time and geology!
Please tell me your ideas about Shiva-particularly about geology! Methinks there is something special concealed behind the connection between Shiva & geology…. I’m REALLY intrigued!
Well, the myth revolves around his hair being braided up and only released over time, rather than it coming full strength. The people prayed for water in the plains, as it was dry, after much tapas by a King Sagar. Another King, Bhagarathi, said OK, and that his daughter Ganga would give them water. Ganga got pissed and wanted to let it go all at once-- there's another Sky God named Varuna involved in this as well though most of that is not included outside the oldest Vedas, and revolves around magic more than ritual.
King Bhagarathi then got Shiva involved, and Shiva controlled Ganga so that as his hair unravels, Ganga is freed to go down to the plains.
Sagar is the ending point of the Ganges, in Gangasagar, and Bhagarathi is the beginning. Its a story of the Himalayan glaciers being released over time, rather than all at once. And Shiva's matted hair are the glaciers which melt over time.
I am sure someone most have written about this somewhere, I just haven't gotten to the point in the book where I went looking for it, just thought about it after being there and reading and hearing the stories.
Thanks for this fascinating look at the story of India’s most important river. I actually looked into the geographical origin of it for a book I’m working on and was informed it originates up towards Mt Shivling and Gangtori-I’m guessing this is the glacial region you spoke of.
Have you heard that Shiva is i also known as a “cosmic pillar,” without beginning or end? Because when it comes to pillars, I’ve got quite the story to tell-also told by an utterly forgotten and unappreciated people. I also recently learned that the people who invented Sanskrit spent years helping the direct descendants of those people build an empire, which would easily explain how such strange and foreign ideas found their way to India.
Interesting collection. I've been reading and viewing much related info recently. The last video was the most odd, many wishful assumptions and factual errors (for example "we" Greeks weren't called Greeks during ancient times), but still interesting. I think Atlantis was probably the Richat Structure/Eye of Sahara, while pre-Colombus (and perhaps much older) contact between "America" and the "Old World" makes a lot of sense.
I'm not sure if the Roman Empire has bloodline continuity to now, as a power structure. But the "spiritual" continuity seems obvious to me, even having read mostly mainstream ancient history so far. Very obvious pro-roman biases and outright lies are perpetuated and even boosted by most modern historians. Hellenistic era ( = mid/late Republic = Rise of Rome) military and diplomatic history is full of that. Abrahamic religions taking form through the Empire also makes more sense the deeper I look into it.
Either way, it makes sense as modern propaganda. The Empire is strong, you little folk are weak.
"pre-Colombus (and perhaps much older) contact between "America" and the "Old World" makes a lot of sense"
I think about this a lot, and how much we are lied to, and what the alternative might be.
I focus on India and there its Moors, Armenians, and gentiles or hindus, who brought the trade and made the buildings. None of them like they mean today. The Moors/Mohammedeans are a completely erased or forgotten group. Armenia a part of Constantinople. Moors seem related to Sufism via Persia, Armenia too? Up to Gaur in Bengal, before 1500, both of them were part of some global group, but probably not written, naval and sea cultures, like the Bengal Moors. That's who was the main sea obstacle of the Danes, Portuguese, and the EIC's, but we never hear about them.
The wars between France and the British to me look entirely contrived, like something the Romans would pull off, by pitting two powers against each other with the target being access and wiping out of the Native tribes on which land they are warring. That's a pretty good indicator of it being a psyop-- when its not on either of the fighting parties land.
I'm not that well versed (or even clueless) in much of the above. I have a lot to read on India after the Mauryans and Greco-Bactians. Also on early Islam (or whatever happened there before it was established as Islam). Your links above were some of my first contact besides mainstream (military) history. Other suggestions welcome, especially free online resources.
The Berbers certainly have some Phoenician/Carthaginian heritage. Most Carthaginian vassals became Numidian and Mauri vassals before being absorbed into Rome. Centuries later the Vandal overlords of Northwest Africa appear very maritime. On how the Moors finally connect to the Arabs besides the conquest, and to India, I can't say much. Maybe they already traded that far through (the rest of) Rome and Persia? Since they have former Punic harbors/cultural influence and are major grain exporters, it wouldn't surprise me if they were among the most mercantile folk of late antiquity/early medieval. Carthage reached America according to some evidence, perhaps this indeed happened and didn't (totally) stop happening. And/or, as all those megalithic structures suggest, there's far older trans-Atlantic or global contact. I've also read some interesting related things here: https://substack.com/@phoenicianhunter
"Armenia a part of Constantinople"
Not sure what you mean here (Eastern Empire as a different power center, with Vatican=Rome?)
If I recall correctly many Armenians both migrated and were forcefully relocated to various Roman regions during Medieval. They appear to have been a major component of the imperial army (I think also some emperors as well) and frequently traders. Perhaps the later has to do with the India connection, but Armenia proper was also at times (semi) independent or under eastern empires. Doesn't surprise me that Armenians had presence in India. It makes sense even as early as Achaemenid Persian times.
Hindus as partly or complete different to modern meaning? Gentiles as in non-Jews or something more specific? Armenians/Moors too different from what I described above?
The divide and conquer thing is quite old and generic, even if the Romans perfected it, so I'm not sure if it provides specific clues. But I have to refresh and look deeper on much of European and American history as well.
After Christianity becomes official, ancient Greeks, along with the old Romans and many other people are soon partly gone, especially culturally. Not sure there was much left of the ancient world for the Ottomans to wipe out after over 1000 years of enforced Christianity. The Ottomans seem more tolerant to me (on average). Then Greece has neo-Greekified a lot of varied tribal/rural populations, like a good modern nation state.
If you're interested, I've done some sloppy semi-(un)related writing here:
The 1st link includes 2 documentaries on the Flavians and Christianity, the 2nd includes my insights on late Sparta and on how Rome started to conquer Greece.
And Gaur goes back to 600 in being established, and its fall about the same as the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire in 1453 and their wiping out of people-- Greeks too, but am not sure which ones.
Thank you for this continuing education into this complicated, yet amazingly simple, world of corrupted lust for power and ultimately money, the root of, and support for, the power quest, expansion and hold.
Love the vibe. Here on Substack, I’ve been trying fruitlessly to catch the eye of Classical Wisdom types, since much of my dangerous and groundbreaking knowledge would not have been possible without the input of several Greek myths. My co-author-far more experienced in these matters-tells me the same is true for Bible-thumpers as well: although our book would be NOTHING without the Good Book, as soon as they hear what we propose, they bury their heads in the sand.
So, yeah, I completely agree: History is told by the supposed winners. All other narratives are moot.
Thanks, I find myself bored stiff with those who are just writing about the history as if the collaborative history is nothing more than 'if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes a truth.' I search for the nuggets that show a different narrative, that of the losers and who was erased.
My big topic like this lately is the Berbers and the Arabs that came to be called the Moors. The conflation and thereafter erasure by the victors. I have an article to put out soon. Its difficult research, so inductive, you have to peel layers back and then something is found that puts you at a totally different level of understanding.
Love your comment, Jerome*. They remind me very much of the ancient Greek scholar Euhemerus**, who sought to "peel back the layers of a story" to "reveal the hidden truths" contained therein. All I do now is geared towards explaining why, as you say, people like the Berbers and Moors, were not only Conflated and erased, but why that HAD to be. The answers are hideous, and I use this word consciously: many ancient myths, native and civilized, speak of the "hideous underworld nature" of certain underground beings and gods, and those are all us!
*And the repetition of a lie quote, of course.
**–founder of what would become, thanks to Dorothy Vitaliano in 1968, Geomythology.
Oh, thank you for that mention of Vitaliano and Geomythology-- new to me. One thing I am working on is a travel book along the Ganges in India. And reading Ganga and the story of Badrinath and Shiva, and pondering it, I kept thinking to myself, this is a story of time and geology!
Please tell me your ideas about Shiva-particularly about geology! Methinks there is something special concealed behind the connection between Shiva & geology…. I’m REALLY intrigued!
Well, the myth revolves around his hair being braided up and only released over time, rather than it coming full strength. The people prayed for water in the plains, as it was dry, after much tapas by a King Sagar. Another King, Bhagarathi, said OK, and that his daughter Ganga would give them water. Ganga got pissed and wanted to let it go all at once-- there's another Sky God named Varuna involved in this as well though most of that is not included outside the oldest Vedas, and revolves around magic more than ritual.
King Bhagarathi then got Shiva involved, and Shiva controlled Ganga so that as his hair unravels, Ganga is freed to go down to the plains.
Sagar is the ending point of the Ganges, in Gangasagar, and Bhagarathi is the beginning. Its a story of the Himalayan glaciers being released over time, rather than all at once. And Shiva's matted hair are the glaciers which melt over time.
I am sure someone most have written about this somewhere, I just haven't gotten to the point in the book where I went looking for it, just thought about it after being there and reading and hearing the stories.
Thanks for this fascinating look at the story of India’s most important river. I actually looked into the geographical origin of it for a book I’m working on and was informed it originates up towards Mt Shivling and Gangtori-I’m guessing this is the glacial region you spoke of.
Have you heard that Shiva is i also known as a “cosmic pillar,” without beginning or end? Because when it comes to pillars, I’ve got quite the story to tell-also told by an utterly forgotten and unappreciated people. I also recently learned that the people who invented Sanskrit spent years helping the direct descendants of those people build an empire, which would easily explain how such strange and foreign ideas found their way to India.
This is very interesting!
Interesting collection. I've been reading and viewing much related info recently. The last video was the most odd, many wishful assumptions and factual errors (for example "we" Greeks weren't called Greeks during ancient times), but still interesting. I think Atlantis was probably the Richat Structure/Eye of Sahara, while pre-Colombus (and perhaps much older) contact between "America" and the "Old World" makes a lot of sense.
I'm not sure if the Roman Empire has bloodline continuity to now, as a power structure. But the "spiritual" continuity seems obvious to me, even having read mostly mainstream ancient history so far. Very obvious pro-roman biases and outright lies are perpetuated and even boosted by most modern historians. Hellenistic era ( = mid/late Republic = Rise of Rome) military and diplomatic history is full of that. Abrahamic religions taking form through the Empire also makes more sense the deeper I look into it.
Either way, it makes sense as modern propaganda. The Empire is strong, you little folk are weak.
"pre-Colombus (and perhaps much older) contact between "America" and the "Old World" makes a lot of sense"
I think about this a lot, and how much we are lied to, and what the alternative might be.
I focus on India and there its Moors, Armenians, and gentiles or hindus, who brought the trade and made the buildings. None of them like they mean today. The Moors/Mohammedeans are a completely erased or forgotten group. Armenia a part of Constantinople. Moors seem related to Sufism via Persia, Armenia too? Up to Gaur in Bengal, before 1500, both of them were part of some global group, but probably not written, naval and sea cultures, like the Bengal Moors. That's who was the main sea obstacle of the Danes, Portuguese, and the EIC's, but we never hear about them.
The wars between France and the British to me look entirely contrived, like something the Romans would pull off, by pitting two powers against each other with the target being access and wiping out of the Native tribes on which land they are warring. That's a pretty good indicator of it being a psyop-- when its not on either of the fighting parties land.
I'm not that well versed (or even clueless) in much of the above. I have a lot to read on India after the Mauryans and Greco-Bactians. Also on early Islam (or whatever happened there before it was established as Islam). Your links above were some of my first contact besides mainstream (military) history. Other suggestions welcome, especially free online resources.
The Berbers certainly have some Phoenician/Carthaginian heritage. Most Carthaginian vassals became Numidian and Mauri vassals before being absorbed into Rome. Centuries later the Vandal overlords of Northwest Africa appear very maritime. On how the Moors finally connect to the Arabs besides the conquest, and to India, I can't say much. Maybe they already traded that far through (the rest of) Rome and Persia? Since they have former Punic harbors/cultural influence and are major grain exporters, it wouldn't surprise me if they were among the most mercantile folk of late antiquity/early medieval. Carthage reached America according to some evidence, perhaps this indeed happened and didn't (totally) stop happening. And/or, as all those megalithic structures suggest, there's far older trans-Atlantic or global contact. I've also read some interesting related things here: https://substack.com/@phoenicianhunter
"Armenia a part of Constantinople"
Not sure what you mean here (Eastern Empire as a different power center, with Vatican=Rome?)
If I recall correctly many Armenians both migrated and were forcefully relocated to various Roman regions during Medieval. They appear to have been a major component of the imperial army (I think also some emperors as well) and frequently traders. Perhaps the later has to do with the India connection, but Armenia proper was also at times (semi) independent or under eastern empires. Doesn't surprise me that Armenians had presence in India. It makes sense even as early as Achaemenid Persian times.
Hindus as partly or complete different to modern meaning? Gentiles as in non-Jews or something more specific? Armenians/Moors too different from what I described above?
The divide and conquer thing is quite old and generic, even if the Romans perfected it, so I'm not sure if it provides specific clues. But I have to refresh and look deeper on much of European and American history as well.
After Christianity becomes official, ancient Greeks, along with the old Romans and many other people are soon partly gone, especially culturally. Not sure there was much left of the ancient world for the Ottomans to wipe out after over 1000 years of enforced Christianity. The Ottomans seem more tolerant to me (on average). Then Greece has neo-Greekified a lot of varied tribal/rural populations, like a good modern nation state.
If you're interested, I've done some sloppy semi-(un)related writing here:
https://cassandrafartsback.substack.com/p/from-seleucid-judea-to-imperial-roman
https://cassandrafartsback.substack.com/p/the-sparta-youve-never-heard-about
The 1st link includes 2 documentaries on the Flavians and Christianity, the 2nd includes my insights on late Sparta and on how Rome started to conquer Greece.
And Gaur goes back to 600 in being established, and its fall about the same as the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire in 1453 and their wiping out of people-- Greeks too, but am not sure which ones.
I have no doubt that the Roman Empire simply regrouped, rebranded and relocated a few times. I have written about it extensively. Please see: https://francesleader.substack.com/p/black-nobility-101
Thank you for this continuing education into this complicated, yet amazingly simple, world of corrupted lust for power and ultimately money, the root of, and support for, the power quest, expansion and hold.
Thanks for the follow! I like how you think!
I too am beginning to learn about and believe the Roman Empire merely changed names... and it’s adherents continue to rule the world.